2027: It’ll be difficult to remove Tinubu – Sule Lamido
• Bode George should stop making noise; he’s not a PDP leader
• Opposition govs who defected to APC have lost their souls
Nigerians are in for a long political darkness and suffering in Tinubu, says Sule Lamido.
Says oppostion Governors who defected to APC have lost their souls.
Alhaji Sule Lamido is the former PDP Governor of Jigawa State. A party man with strong values and undiluted principle and love for NIgeria, he believes that forgiveness and reconciliation is the surest way to reset the PDP and return it to winning ways. He also rebuked the opposition governors who defected to the APC, insisting that they reduced the mandates to articles of merchandising. He also beliueves that President Bola Ahmed Tinubu is going to be a hard nut to crack in 2027. He spoke to Desmond Mgboh in Kano.
One of the PDP factions presented former President, Goodluck Jonathan as its presidential candidate. But Jonathan never spoke on this. What are your thoughts?
I foresaw this would likely happen. When I took my case to the court on the account that I have been denied the right to contest for the chairmanship of the party, I appealed to all members of the party, no matter where you are on the divide that, before the court verdict, either way it goes, we should be able to come together and forgive each other, to restore that common trust that we have for each other and one another, that love that we have for each other. So that the party which is known all over Nigeria, which is believed in by Nigerians and which believes in Nigeria will be able to come back and reunite and reclaim what is likely ours- which is the Presidency. I said so. I said that if after the court verdict and there is no reconciliation, there is going to be some problems. Because it’s going to be a family civil war and a family civil war could be very dangerous, it could be very, very bitter because each arm will have a right to a claim. Therefore, the best way is to bury our difference and come back home and reunite the party. I told them early enough that lets come together, put up a caretaker committee or agree that no matter the court verdict, we put a caretaker committee to see us through a transition period because the convention in Ibadan was being annulled. And to make thing worse today, all those who were at the Ibadan Convention has today abandoned the party. PDP had 12 governors and today, we have no single governor in PDP. Those who organised the Ibadan Convention, those who denied me the right to contest because they didn’t like me and those who had wanted to impose their own candidate and their own lanky, somebody whom they could control, today have abandoned the party. There is nobody there. They are all gone. And now, those who are claiming that the party is theirs; nobody was in PDP in 2011. Those who are now making the claim that they are in PDP were not in PDP in 2011. They have no idea how Jonathan emerged at the convention when he ran with Atiku in 2011. They have no idea. It was after Jonathan picked the ticket, supported by Obasanjo, that they emerged. Those who are making this are those whom Jonathan invited into the cabinet after the election. So they have no idea how Jonathan was made. Jonathan was a raw material, how he was refined, made into Vice President, made into President, they have no idea. That is why it very ambivalent because those who are now talking about PDP are not PDP members before the time of Jonathan.
Do you feel he, Jonathan, is not really with them because he actually is not talking?
You see, he is a former Nigerian President. And he is very aware of what is PDP and who is PDP. He is very aware of the real PDP. Even Chief Bode George, who has been there making noise. He may be an elderly person. But politically, we are seniors to him because Bode George was not there when PDP was formed. He came into the party much later as an aide to Obasanjo, and not as a party man. He came into PDP as an aide to Obasanjo. This fact has to be made clear. When we were doing all the meeting , he was not there. When PDP was being formed, he was not there. It was only after Obasanjo was running for the President that he came supporting him … but how PDP was formed and who and who were behind it, he had no idea. So with all respect to him, the kind of noise he is making now is very embarrassing. Because he lacks that moral claim of being a PDP leader. He lacks it. So you should ask who are those asking PDP to run, who are they?
Alternatively will you say the name the Wike group presented to INEC – and I think the name has been uploaded by INEC- is he the solution? or is he a preferred candidate of the PDP?
To me, when you say Wike, you seem to diminish what is called PDP. For me, it is about where is the law as far as PDP is concerned? You understand. We are standing where the law is. If the law says that is what we have in PDP… We went to a convention. Isn’t it? I was there, Makarfi was there, Saraki was there and Tambuwal was there. Saraki was former Senate President, I was former PDP governor, so also was Makarfi. Therefore, in terms of personalities, in terms of their profiles, those who went to the convention are more qualified and have a bigger claim over the PDP than those who went to Ibadan. Because those who went to Ibadan were just governors who were there using their offices and not their political structures – because they were funding the party, but in terms of political relevant and weight, they are not there. So those who went there have no moral claim over the PDP. In any case, where are they now? They are all gone! That is why I say that it is important that before this court case ran out, let us try and reconcile. I granted an interview to you where I said that my victory is a very bitter one, where I told you that I felt terribly agonised because I took my party to court. But again, what can I do ? Therefore, for the sake of legal clarity, I had pleaded that we should all come together and resolve the issues and forgive one another. This is very important because I foresaw this kind of problem. But these people didn’t agree because to them it is more about the position and not about the interest of the party. To me, it is more about the party. To them it is more about the level. So they are all of the same kind of level.
The impression is that President Bola Ahmed Tinubu is using Wike to destroy the PDP? Do you think this impression is correct?
For me, I don’t want to engage in this very lazy debate. It is a very lazy debate. Do you know why? What do you call an opponent? You are a boxer in the ring or footballer in the field, what do you want to do? Win! I mean it is a contest and it is a competition and in that contest, the other competitor has right to want to win. The question is why should we in the PDP, knowing his intention, allow Tinubu to destroy our party? We did because those who mattered most had left the party for Wike. Look at it all the former governors – apart from myself and Markarfi and Dankwabo and maybe, the Chief Servant are all in APC. Isn’t it? In 2014, they were part of our problem. These are people who ruined their own family, who destroyed their own family. So what I am saying is that if those who had stayed behind to fight for PDP, if all of us – the former President, the Vice President, the formers governors, if they had stayed in PDP, who is Wike and who is Tinubu? They could never have had the guts to dare us. They can’t fight us! But you see abandoning your home to become a relic, whom do you blame? So this is a very lazy argument. A very lazy argument! For me, Tinubu succeeded because there is an opportunity, because the house was abandoned. Why do you blame him? Blame us! If we had stayed behind, who the hell is Tinubu? You are going into a contest and you are asking your opponent not to harass you, not to defeat you?
We have talked at length about the problems of the PDP. What do you think the solution is? And is this solution still possible before the forthcoming elections?
Look today, the political environment is muddled up. There is no clarity. Today, I am becoming a little bit more … am I confused? What do I do? Whom do I choose? In the PDP my political party, I am there. Only a few of us are remaining in the party. In ADC, all my colleagues, governors and boss – the former Vice President are there. In NDC, my colleague governors and my colleague ministers, Dickson, Kwankwaso, Peter Obi and others are there. Now look at me here in PDP. And literarily, we are all bleeding, caused by my own brothers in these two parties. What I am going through, the pain and agony and bleeding are caused by these people in these two parties. So what do I do? Guide me! PDP is a very strong political party with a very strong history, with strong philosophy and is committed.
Eighty per cent of the APC is PDP. The only person who was not of the PDP is Tinubu himself who was from the ACN. All others are PDP. Anybody who is anybody today in APC is from the PDP. In Katsina , we have Masari, Shema. In Sokoto, Zamfara, these are people who are all PDP. It is PDP in ADC and it is PDP in NDC. And that is why I say that I am really hard put to make a choice. What do I do? My brother, my friends, my partners and my collaborators are in different political parties. Why must they confuse me? Are they being fair to me? That is my pain.
It is not about Tinubu. Tinubu was given the opportunity by us. I gave you an interview about two years ago. I said mark you. He is somebody that you will have difficulty removing because of his political history, because of what he can do. He became the President on his own, without anybody supporting him. He became the President on his own cash. When he ran for the primaries at the Eagle Square, Buhari was not supporting him. Was he? And yet he won. And at that venue, he warned Abdullahi Adamu and Ahmed Lawal, and he said that you ran with me, you will see fire! Aren’t they seeing fire now?
It was the PDP platform which he used to be there because he was able to control and manipulate it. Therefore, I said that we should be very, very careful, because we are in for a long, long suffering and political darkness because this guy Tinubu is somebody that you must know first before you will be able to engage him. To me, I am PDP and I remain PDP and whoever the PDP fields for Presidency I will vote for him.
Catholic Bishops told the president what some feel was the hard truth, but the people that work with the President have been protesting, that they shouldn’t have said it the way they said it…
I have my reservations on the interventions of some of these religious leaders generally, irrespective of whether they are Christians or Muslims. I feel that they could be partisan sometimes. But in this case, I think the Bishops have not erred by speaking truth to power. They have a moral responsibility to speak in the way they spoke and to address the President on the issues affecting Nigerians. I cannot fault them on any ground.
From your own perspective, what is the state of our economy? This is because from what we hear from the Presidency, things are getting better, things are not bad as they are reported.
Blame those around him who are shielding him because I know what is called leadership. I know what is called a governor and a president. If you are not very careful, those around you will never let you know what is happening around you in this country and in your state. You will never know. Because they would shield you, they would talk sweet things to power because they are benefiting from the system. If he says things are all right, Nigeria is normal, it is based on the reports that he is getting from his own aides, whom he put into various positions of authority. I mean they are his only reliable source. These are the institutions that give him report on Nigeria. And they are all saying to him that things are okay. So do you blame him if he says that things are okay? Because they don’t have the courage to say that things are wrong! They don’t have that kind of courage.
But what is your impression on security, economy and all of that?
I have always been saying that I was in that power doing my own best for the country and Nigerians were turned against me, against our party. We were there in government, doing our own very best and Nigerians said that under the PDP there was not security, under the PDP, there was corruption, Chibok girls, all kind of blackmail, we were thieves. Fair enough, we have been removed and we are now out of power, why asking me? Ask yourself, ask Nigerians! Are you suffering? I was there before, doing my best, you said no! And you put in Angel Buhari and later, Angel Tinubu. So, why you are asking me? I have no hand in putting them there. I have been saying that they are wrong; they cannot do it because they are not prepared but you refused to listen to me. I said don’t, you said no. You rather went after your own emotion, you went into your own cubicle of religion, ethnicity, regionalism and so forth and got yourself locked in this cubicle. I said don’t lock up yourself but you refused. I should be asking you and Nigerians. Are you suffering? Look at your pocket. Is it full?
There is the argument that Nigeria is gradually moving into a one-party state. All the governors have moved to the APC. Most of the key characters have moved to the APC?
Those you mentioned, the governors and other leaders of political parties who are moving to APC under the call of the chief caller, the question to ask is, why are they moving there? It means that they have lost their own souls. They have no conscience anymore! They have turned their mandates into an article of merchandising, an article of making negotiations! They have turned their back on their followership who toiled through the sun and rain to give them the power; and now that they got the power, they have the power for themselves. They are making negotiations for their own selves, ignoring the followership, ignoring those who were there for them. Now, this means that they have no conscience. So what can the voters do? What can the followers do? I voted Mr. A. He betrayed me. I voted Mr. B, he betrayed me. So what I can do? So the Nigerians voters, what can they do? Because those they trusted, those whom they gave their own mandate and those they believed in, who made sacrifice for in the rain – don’t forget that some of them died. Now those who benefited from these have turned these benefits into article for merchandizing, for their own power. So what do I say? Those who are moving, they know why they are moving.
It is assumed that the defection is all an attempt to stop the opposition from accessing cash
What opposition?. All those who are in these parties were APC. All those talking now were in the APC- apart from Dickson and David Mark. All those who were in NDC and ADC, they were formally PDP and moved to APC to cause our political failure and doom and agony and pain and anguish.
How competitive would 2027 be with most of the players hanging and jostling around a single man?
They were in same party before. In 2014, they were all in APC. What are you talking about? All of these people who you are calling the opposition were the ones who were in APC in 2014. Have you forgotten? Whatever they had now, why didn’t they execute those ideas under the APC government? Whatever ideas they have about security, about corruption, why didn’t they ensure that those ideas were implemented by the government they voted for and which they were part of? They are all APC in 2014. All other key players were part of the problem we had in 2014.
We now have a clear picture of the 2027 presidential candidates. Peter Obi, Atiku and a few others. Are these candidates competitive and capable of a political change for Nigerians?
People who are very senior in Nigerian political arena know my role, about a year ago, as to how do we face 2027? They knew my role about how to approach the coming electoral cycle. People know it. When the time comes, I will reveal to you. But anybody of these people reading you, they know the role I played about a year ago about how to approach 2027, and we held a number of meetings. They know my efforts as to how do we politically and democratically deal with Tinubu because I know what he is and I know his capacity. I have been saying it. It is not going to be a child’s play. How do we get ourselves organised ? What do we do? And I made some proposals which failed to materialise.
Why do you think these efforts failed to materialise? Are you now giving up on the system and just looking forward to 2027 with no expectation?
I will simply go and vote for my party on the day of election.
About eight months ago, your followers in the PDP in Jigawa State were mounting pressure that you should defect from the PDP so that they can have a better platform to contest the election. How are you dealing with their expectations now that you have not defected?
I had admitted to them that, look it is true that we were in crisis; it is true we had some problems and I understand that many of them would want to run for various offices as a matter of right, that you don’t want to be shut out. I gave them guaranty. I told them that no matter what, I will give them a way out- whether by collaboration or by association, no matter what. I told them that right now, we are in court. When the court process is over, I will give you collaboration. And that the collaboration will be a meeting of equal partners. And that is why I said that no matter what, you will run for various offices because they were very worried. I said we were in court, let us wait. If the whole thing collapses, I will find a way for them, but luckily, the system did not collapse and based on the law of Nigeria today, PDP today is where people are and why people in Jigawa State are running for offices, which means that I have fulfilled my commitment.
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